Performance and mouse problems

[Albert Shih-2]

Hi all

I've got two very strange problem

I'm running 9-stable on a Dell Laptop E4200.

Since this morning when I put a USB mouse (I've try three mouses to be
sure) it's not working. The kernel and HAL see the mouse but Xorg don't
seem do anything.

The second point is the load of the system is alway more than 1 (~1.5-2)
event I do nothing. I kill all services, daemon, software and the load
never drop.

I've stop :

        hald
        dbus
        powerd
        etc...

and ps don't show any process eating some ressource. But the load is high
(and the laptop is very hot).

I make a csup of world and build new userland, and news kernel. And nothing
change....

HELP...please.

Regards.

--
Albert SHIH
DIO bâtiment 15
Observatoire de Paris
5 Place Jules Janssen
92195 Meudon Cedex
Téléphone : 01 45 07 76 26/06 86 69 95 71
xmpp: [hidden email]
Heure local/Local time:
ven 27 avr 2012 18:08:24 CEST
_______________________________________________
[hidden email] mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[hidden email]"

[Adam Vande More]

On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 11:13 AM, Albert Shih <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi all
>
> I've got two very strange problem
>
> I'm running 9-stable on a Dell Laptop E4200.
>
> Since this morning when I put a USB mouse (I've try three mouses to be
> sure) it's not working. The kernel and HAL see the mouse but Xorg don't
> seem do anything.
>
> The second point is the load of the system is alway more than 1 (~1.5-2)
> event I do nothing. I kill all services, daemon, software and the load
> never drop.
>
> I've stop :
>
>        hald
>        dbus
>        powerd
>        etc...
>
> and ps don't show any process eating some ressource. But the load is high
> (and the laptop is very hot).
>
> I make a csup of world and build new userland, and news kernel. And nothing
> change....
>

http://www.wonkity.com/~wblock/docs/html/aei.html

--
Adam Vande More
_______________________________________________
[hidden email] mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[hidden email]"

[Albert Shih-2]

 Le 27/04/2012 ? 12:14:04-0500, Adam Vande More a écrit

> On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 11:13 AM, Albert Shih <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Hi all
> >
> > I've got two very strange problem
> >
> > I'm running 9-stable on a Dell Laptop E4200.
> >
> > Since this morning when I put a USB mouse (I've try three mouses to be
> > sure) it's not working. The kernel and HAL see the mouse but Xorg don't
> > seem do anything.
> >
> > The second point is the load of the system is alway more than 1 (~1.5-2)
> > event I do nothing. I kill all services, daemon, software and the load
> > never drop.
> >
> > I've stop :
> >
> >        hald
> >        dbus
> >        powerd
> >        etc...
> >
> > and ps don't show any process eating some ressource. But the load is high
> > (and the laptop is very hot).
> >
> > I make a csup of world and build new userland, and news kernel. And nothing
> > change....
> >
>
> http://www.wonkity.com/~wblock/docs/html/aei.html

Well I don't see why this can be from a misconfiguration, the usb mouse
work well before I update hald and world.

But I read you link and I don't have those option in my configuration of
xorg.

Any other idea ?

But thanks.

For the problem about performance I submit this problem on stable mailing
list.

Regards

JAS

--
Albert SHIH
DIO bâtiment 15
Observatoire de Paris
5 Place Jules Janssen
92195 Meudon Cedex
Téléphone : 01 45 07 76 26/06 86 69 95 71
xmpp: [hidden email]
Heure local/Local time:
sam 28 avr 2012 22:49:23 CEST
_______________________________________________
[hidden email] mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[hidden email]"

[Jerome Herman]

On 28/04/2012 22:52, Albert Shih wrote:

>   Le 27/04/2012 ? 12:14:04-0500, Adam Vande More a écrit
>> On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 11:13 AM, Albert Shih<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all
>>>
>>> I've got two very strange problem
>>>
>>> I'm running 9-stable on a Dell Laptop E4200.
>>>
>>> Since this morning when I put a USB mouse (I've try three mouses to be
>>> sure) it's not working. The kernel and HAL see the mouse but Xorg don't
>>> seem do anything.
>>>
>>> The second point is the load of the system is alway more than 1 (~1.5-2)
>>> event I do nothing. I kill all services, daemon, software and the load
>>> never drop.
>>>
>>> I've stop :
>>>
>>>         hald
>>>         dbus
>>>         powerd
>>>         etc...
>>>
>>> and ps don't show any process eating some ressource. But the load is high
>>> (and the laptop is very hot).
>>>
>>> I make a csup of world and build new userland, and news kernel. And nothing
>>> change....
>>>
>> http://www.wonkity.com/~wblock/docs/html/aei.html
> Well I don't see why this can be from a misconfiguration, the usb mouse
> work well before I update hald and world.
>
> But I read you link and I don't have those option in my configuration of
> xorg.
>
> Any other idea ?
>
> But thanks.
>
> For the problem about performance I submit this problem on stable mailing
> list.
>
> Regards
>
> JAS
>

I was afraid this would happen. And I fear it is just the begining.
I assume you did not create any custom hald rule. Did you ?

The first thing to do is to add

Option "AutoAddDevices" "Off"

In your ServerLayout section of xorg.conf.
Then restart X and try to plug a mouse again. It may result in your mouse not working in X, but at least it should stop your computer from using all it's CPU trying to map the mouse.


If indeed the CPU load does not reach skyhigh levels when you plug a USB
mouse, we will be able to conclude that there is a DBus/hald problem.

Also could you do the following

- Mouse unplugged :

# /usr/local/etc/rc.d/hald stop
# /usr/local/sbin/hald --daemon=no --verbose=yes>>  /tmp/hald_debug.log 2>&1
# dbus-launch lshal>>  /tmp/dbus_hal_debug.log 2>&1

- plug mouse

# dbus-launch lshal>>  /tmp/dbus_hal_debug.log 2>&1


And post the content of both log files ? That should help in understanding what is going on. In the worst case there are mecanism that will keep HAL from tinkering/probing usb mouse.

Jerome Herman


_______________________________________________
[hidden email] mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[hidden email]"

[Albert Shih-2]

 Le 29/04/2012 ? 00:58:01+0200, Jerome Herman a écrit
>
> I was afraid this would happen. And I fear it is just the begining.

Why you say that ?

> I assume you did not create any custom hald rule. Did you ?

I have one, but I try with him (I use since hal existe on BSD) and without
him. For the same result. The pad in the laptop working but not the usb
mouse.


In fact I don't think the cpu load is connected to this problem.

I already send a email to freebsd-stable.

Well but that not a solve the Xorg don't see the mouse.

>
> The first thing to do is to add
>
> Option "AutoAddDevices" "Off"
>
> In your ServerLayout section of xorg.conf.
> Then restart X and try to plug a mouse again. It may result in your mouse not working in X, but at least it should stop your computer from using all it's CPU trying to map the mouse.
>

>
> If indeed the CPU load does not reach skyhigh levels when you plug a USB
> mouse, we will be able to conclude that there is a DBus/hald problem.
>
> Also could you do the following
>
> - Mouse unplugged :
>
> # /usr/local/etc/rc.d/hald stop
> # /usr/local/sbin/hald --daemon=no --verbose=yes>>  /tmp/hald_debug.log 2>&1
> # dbus-launch lshal>>  /tmp/dbus_hal_debug.log 2>&1
>
> - plug mouse
>
> # dbus-launch lshal>>  /tmp/dbus_hal_debug.log 2>&1
>
>
> And post the content of both log files ? That should help in understanding what is going on. In the worst case there are mecanism that will keep HAL from tinkering/probing usb mouse.
>

Here :

        the hald log file :

                http://dl.free.fr/rqLTgOvPS

        (I put some blank ligne juste before I plug the mouse)

        the dbus log file before I plug the mouse :

                http://dl.free.fr/iDgqyLgu6

        and the dbus log file after I plug the mouse :

                http://dl.free.fr/lZuRadJFx

I'm not qualified  to said if it's hald/dbus problem, FreeBSD-Stable
problem or both. I don't think it's a FreeBSD-Stable problem because in the
dmesg we see the mouse plug


ugen5.2: <vendor 0x413c> at usbus5
ums1: <vendor 0x413c Dell Premium USB Optical Mouse, class 0/0, rev 2.00/0.09, addr 2> on usbus5
ums1: 5 buttons and [XYZT] coordinates ID=0

Regards.

JAS

--
Albert SHIH
DIO bâtiment 15
Observatoire de Paris
5 Place Jules Janssen
92195 Meudon Cedex
Téléphone : 01 45 07 76 26/06 86 69 95 71
xmpp: [hidden email]
Heure local/Local time:
lun 30 avr 2012 13:22:45 CEST
_______________________________________________
[hidden email] mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[hidden email]"

[Warren Block]

On Mon, 30 Apr 2012, Albert Shih wrote:

> Le 29/04/2012 ? 00:58:01+0200, Jerome Herman a écrit
>>
>> I was afraid this would happen. And I fear it is just the begining.
>
> Why you say that ?
>
>> I assume you did not create any custom hald rule. Did you ?
>
> I have one, but I try with him (I use since hal existe on BSD) and without
> him. For the same result. The pad in the laptop working but not the usb
> mouse.
>
>
> In fact I don't think the cpu load is connected to this problem.

On one computer here, only one of the touchpad or external mouse works
unless moused is enabled in rc.conf.  That's without hal, but worth
trying even with hal.  Just moused_enable="YES".
_______________________________________________
[hidden email] mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[hidden email]"

[Jerome Herman]

On 30/04/2012 13:39, Albert Shih wrote:
>   Le 29/04/2012 ? 00:58:01+0200, Jerome Herman a écrit
>> I was afraid this would happen. And I fear it is just the begining.
> Why you say that ?
Short answer : I am a proud member of the "HAL and DBus are evil" group.
Middle answer : HAL and DBus were made, maintained and tuned with pretty
much nothing but Linux in mind. As a result they hardly play well with
other OS, and will tend to play worse as the time goes by.  In fact
general opinion is that HAL never truly worked under Linux either, it is
now officially deprecated.

>
>> I assume you did not create any custom hald rule. Did you ?
> I have one, but I try with him (I use since hal existe on BSD) and without
> him. For the same result. The pad in the laptop working but not the usb
> mouse.
>
>
> In fact I don't think the cpu load is connected to this problem.
>
> I already send a email to freebsd-stable.
>
> Well but that not a solve the Xorg don't see the mouse.
>
>> The first thing to do is to add
>>
>> Option "AutoAddDevices" "Off"
>>
>> In your ServerLayout section of xorg.conf.
>> Then restart X and try to plug a mouse again. It may result in your mouse not working in X, but at least it should stop your computer from using all it's CPU trying to map the mouse.
>>
>> If indeed the CPU load does not reach skyhigh levels when you plug a USB
>> mouse, we will be able to conclude that there is a DBus/hald problem.
>>
>> Also could you do the following
>>
>> - Mouse unplugged :
>>
>> # /usr/local/etc/rc.d/hald stop
>> # /usr/local/sbin/hald --daemon=no --verbose=yes>>   /tmp/hald_debug.log 2>&1
>> # dbus-launch lshal>>   /tmp/dbus_hal_debug.log 2>&1
>>
>> - plug mouse
>>
>> # dbus-launch lshal>>   /tmp/dbus_hal_debug.log 2>&1
>>
>>
>> And post the content of both log files ? That should help in understanding what is going on. In the worst case there are mecanism that will keep HAL from tinkering/probing usb mouse.
>>
> Here :
>
> the hald log file :
>
> http://dl.free.fr/rqLTgOvPS
>
> (I put some blank ligne juste before I plug the mouse)
>
> the dbus log file before I plug the mouse :
>
> http://dl.free.fr/iDgqyLgu6
>
> and the dbus log file after I plug the mouse :
>
> http://dl.free.fr/lZuRadJFx
>
> I'm not qualified  to said if it's hald/dbus problem, FreeBSD-Stable
> problem or both. I don't think it's a FreeBSD-Stable problem because in the
> dmesg we see the mouse plug
>
>
> ugen5.2:<vendor 0x413c>  at usbus5
> ums1:<vendor 0x413c Dell Premium USB Optical Mouse, class 0/0, rev 2.00/0.09, addr 2>  on usbus5
> ums1: 5 buttons and [XYZT] coordinates ID=0

Ok looking at your files, it does not appear to be a hal/dbus problem
either :
The device is correctly probed and registered with DBus, known as
/dev/ums1, and the x11 driver is mapped to "mouse" which should be correct.
For one reason or another, xorg is not catching/processing the info.

Can you send the Xorg log ? Just wait until X is up and then plug the
mouse. I am curious to see what happens inside xorg.

Regards.
Jerome

> Regards.
>
> JAS
>

_______________________________________________
[hidden email] mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[hidden email]"

[Harald Weis-2]

On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 05:19:35PM +0200, Jerome Herman wrote:

> Short answer : I am a proud member of the "HAL and DBus are evil" group.
> Middle answer : HAL and DBus were made, maintained and tuned with pretty
> much nothing but Linux in mind. As a result they hardly play well with
> other OS, and will tend to play worse as the time goes by.  In fact
> general opinion is that HAL never truly worked under Linux either, it is
> now officially deprecated.

I fully agree and propose a slightly longer answer « by example » because
I just got rid of hald and dbus, and I am very happy with the following
configurations for both my desktop and laptop machines.

/boot/loader.conf on both:
--
ums_load="YES"
--

rc.conf on desktop: # Note that moused_enable is set to NO
                    # by /etc/default/rc.conf !
--
keymap="us.iso"
# Next line required after switching locale from iso-8859-15 to utf-8
scrnmap="us-ascii_to_cp437"

# See rc.conf(5) and /etc/default/rc.conf
# for default and non-default moused settings.
#
moused_ums0_flags="-a 0.3"    # decelerate Labtec mouse
--

rc.conf on laptop:
--
keymap="fr.iso.acc"
# Next line required after switching locale from iso-8859-15 to utf-8
scrnmap="us-ascii_to_cp437"

# See rc.conf(5) and /etc/default/rc.conf
# for default and non-default moused settings.
#
moused_enable="YES"     # touchpad on laptops
moused_flags="-3"
moused_ums0_flags=""    # non-default moused
--
 
xorg.conf on both:
--
Section "ServerLayout"
        Identifier     "X.org Configured"
        Screen      0  "Screen0" 0 0
        InputDevice    "Mouse0" "CorePointer"
        InputDevice    "Keyboard0" "CoreKeyboard"
        Option "AutoAddDevices" "false"
EndSection

Section "InputDevice"
        Identifier  "Keyboard0"
        Driver      "kbd"
EndSection

Section "InputDevice"
        Identifier  "Mouse0"
        Driver      "mouse"
        Option      "Protocol" "auto"
        Option      "Device" "/dev/sysmouse"
        Option      "ZAxisMapping" "4 5 6 7"
EndSection
--

The following configures the keyboard map under X with
the option for typing all sorts of non-ascii characters.

.xinitrc on desktop:
--
setxkbmap -model pc104 -layout us -option compose:ralt
--

.xinitrc on laptop:
--
setxkbmap -model pc102 -layout fr -option compose:menu
--

That works on 8.2-RELEASE-p3.
--
Harald Weis
_______________________________________________
[hidden email] mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[hidden email]"

[Harald Weis-2]

On Tue, May 01, 2012 at 01:32:01PM +0200, Harald Weis wrote:
 
Sorry for the typing error.

Please read
/etc/defaults/rc.conf instead of /etc/default/rc.conf.
_______________________________________________
[hidden email] mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[hidden email]"

[Albert Shih-2]

 Le 30/04/2012 ? 17:19:35+0200, Jerome Herman a écrit
> >> I was afraid this would happen. And I fear it is just the begining.
> > Why you say that ?
> Short answer : I am a proud member of the "HAL and DBus are evil" group.
> Middle answer : HAL and DBus were made, maintained and tuned with pretty
> much nothing but Linux in mind. As a result they hardly play well with
> other OS, and will tend to play worse as the time goes by.  In fact
> general opinion is that HAL never truly worked under Linux either, it is
> now officially deprecated.

OK. I'm just a basic user. Event I use FreeBSD since 3.x

I'm sysadmin so I use lot of FreeBSD for the server side. On my laptop I
use...vim/X11/Firefox/ion3 and that is almost everything I knwon.

I remenber when hal is release I lost lot of time to configure X11 to use
my keyboard map (us_intl) and hate hal for that ;-)

> > ugen5.2:<vendor 0x413c>  at usbus5
> > ums1:<vendor 0x413c Dell Premium USB Optical Mouse, class 0/0, rev 2.00/0.09, addr 2>  on usbus5
> > ums1: 5 buttons and [XYZT] coordinates ID=0
> Ok looking at your files, it does not appear to be a hal/dbus problem
> either :
> The device is correctly probed and registered with DBus, known as
> /dev/ums1, and the x11 driver is mapped to "mouse" which should be correct.
> For one reason or another, xorg is not catching/processing the info.
>
> Can you send the Xorg log ? Just wait until X is up and then plug the
> mouse. I am curious to see what happens inside xorg.

I think the problem is indeed comme from Xorg.

Before I plug (Notice my touchpad working)

        http://dl.free.fr/nkZEuk5nZ

I plug the mouse

        http://dl.free.fr/vEn4bnirv

Thanks.

Regards.

JAS

--
Albert SHIH
DIO bâtiment 15
Observatoire de Paris
5 Place Jules Janssen
92195 Meudon Cedex
Téléphone : 01 45 07 76 26/06 86 69 95 71
xmpp: [hidden email]
Heure local/Local time:
mer 2 mai 2012 17:01:21 CEST
_______________________________________________
[hidden email] mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[hidden email]"

[Warren Block]

On Wed, 2 May 2012, Albert Shih wrote:

> I think the problem is indeed comme from Xorg.

Just to repeat: on this Gateway notebook, only one or the other of the
touchpad or mouse would work until I enabled moused in /etc/rc.conf.
Now either or both work, including when the USB mouse is connected after
X starts.
_______________________________________________
[hidden email] mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[hidden email]"

[Doug Denault]

On Wed, 2 May 2012, Warren Block wrote:

> On Wed, 2 May 2012, Albert Shih wrote:
>
>> I think the problem is indeed comme from Xorg.
>
> Just to repeat: on this Gateway notebook, only one or the other of the
> touchpad or mouse would work until I enabled moused in /etc/rc.conf. Now
> either or both work, including when the USB mouse is connected after X
> starts.

My experience corresponds with Warren's thoughts on this. I was running the
exact levels of software on an old Dell 800Mhz desktop and new aDell laptop many
many times faster, 4 cpu's etc, etc. HAL (which is well named I think) did not
work very well on the laptop and I would lose the mouse and keyboard when I
disabled the touchpad. On the Desktop HAL worked fine. The laptop (keyboard and
mouse anyway) works fine without HAL.


_______________________________________________
[hidden email] mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[hidden email]"

[Jerry]

On Wed, 2 May 2012 13:19:05 -0400 (EDT)
[hidden email] articulated:

>On Wed, 2 May 2012, Warren Block wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 2 May 2012, Albert Shih wrote:
>>
>>> I think the problem is indeed comme from Xorg.
>>
>> Just to repeat: on this Gateway notebook, only one or the other of
>> the touchpad or mouse would work until I enabled moused
>> in /etc/rc.conf. Now either or both work, including when the USB
>> mouse is connected after X starts.
>
>My experience corresponds with Warren's thoughts on this. I was
>running the exact levels of software on an old Dell 800Mhz desktop and
>new aDell laptop many many times faster, 4 cpu's etc, etc. HAL (which
>is well named I think) did not work very well on the laptop and I
>would lose the mouse and keyboard when I disabled the touchpad. On the
>Desktop HAL worked fine. The laptop (keyboard and mouse anyway) works
>fine without HAL.

HAL is now deprecated on GNU/Linux systems. Why it is still being kept
on life support in FreeBSD is the question that needs to be addressed.
This didn't just happen yesterday either. We continue to bump version
numbers yet fail to repair/replace crucial elements of the
operating system. What is even better, depending on whose forum you
choose to read, the problem is FreeBSD -- Linux -- Gnome -- KDE -- "The
Cat in the Hat" (no one has blamed Microsoft for this fiasco as far as
I know) yet the problem still exists. Since 2008, when HAL was being
deprecated, no one has properly addressed the problem. Everyone plays
the "blame game".

--
Jerry ♔

Disclaimer: off-list followups get on-list replies or get ignored.
Please do not ignore the Reply-To header.
__________________________________________________________________

[Jerome Herman]

On 02/05/2012 19:40, Jerry wrote:

> On Wed, 2 May 2012 13:19:05 -0400 (EDT)
> [hidden email] articulated:
>
>> On Wed, 2 May 2012, Warren Block wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, 2 May 2012, Albert Shih wrote:
>>>
>>>> I think the problem is indeed comme from Xorg.
>>> Just to repeat: on this Gateway notebook, only one or the other of
>>> the touchpad or mouse would work until I enabled moused
>>> in /etc/rc.conf. Now either or both work, including when the USB
>>> mouse is connected after X starts.
>> My experience corresponds with Warren's thoughts on this. I was
>> running the exact levels of software on an old Dell 800Mhz desktop and
>> new aDell laptop many many times faster, 4 cpu's etc, etc. HAL (which
>> is well named I think) did not work very well on the laptop and I
>> would lose the mouse and keyboard when I disabled the touchpad. On the
>> Desktop HAL worked fine. The laptop (keyboard and mouse anyway) works
>> fine without HAL.
> HAL is now deprecated on GNU/Linux systems. Why it is still being kept
> on life support in FreeBSD is the question that needs to be addressed.
> This didn't just happen yesterday either. We continue to bump version
> numbers yet fail to repair/replace crucial elements of the
> operating system. What is even better, depending on whose forum you
> choose to read, the problem is FreeBSD -- Linux -- Gnome -- KDE -- "The
> Cat in the Hat" (no one has blamed Microsoft for this fiasco as far as
> I know) yet the problem still exists. Since 2008, when HAL was being
> deprecated, no one has properly addressed the problem. Everyone plays
> the "blame game".

Be carefull that Linux notion of "Deprecated" is not exactly on par with
standard meaning of the term. ifconfig has been deprecated since 1999 in
Linux, OSS since 2001. Both are still alive and kicking. So it might be
that Linux will keep HAL for a while still.


_______________________________________________
[hidden email] mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[hidden email]"

[doug-28]

On Wed, 2 May 2012, Jerome Herman wrote:

> On 02/05/2012 19:40, Jerry wrote:
>> On Wed, 2 May 2012 13:19:05 -0400 (EDT)
>> [hidden email] articulated:
>>
>>> On Wed, 2 May 2012, Warren Block wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Wed, 2 May 2012, Albert Shih wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I think the problem is indeed comme from Xorg.
>>>> Just to repeat: on this Gateway notebook, only one or the other of
>>>> the touchpad or mouse would work until I enabled moused
>>>> in /etc/rc.conf. Now either or both work, including when the USB
>>>> mouse is connected after X starts.
>>> My experience corresponds with Warren's thoughts on this. I was
>>> running the exact levels of software on an old Dell 800Mhz desktop and
>>> new aDell laptop many many times faster, 4 cpu's etc, etc. HAL (which
>>> is well named I think) did not work very well on the laptop and I
>>> would lose the mouse and keyboard when I disabled the touchpad. On the
>>> Desktop HAL worked fine. The laptop (keyboard and mouse anyway) works
>>> fine without HAL.
>> HAL is now deprecated on GNU/Linux systems. Why it is still being kept
>> on life support in FreeBSD is the question that needs to be addressed.
>> This didn't just happen yesterday either. We continue to bump version
>> numbers yet fail to repair/replace crucial elements of the
>> operating system. What is even better, depending on whose forum you
>> choose to read, the problem is FreeBSD -- Linux -- Gnome -- KDE -- "The
>> Cat in the Hat" (no one has blamed Microsoft for this fiasco as far as
>> I know) yet the problem still exists. Since 2008, when HAL was being
>> deprecated, no one has properly addressed the problem. Everyone plays
>> the "blame game".
> Be carefull that Linux notion of "Deprecated" is not exactly on par with
> standard meaning of the term. ifconfig has been deprecated since 1999 in
> Linux, OSS since 2001. Both are still alive and kicking. So it might be that
> Linux will keep HAL for a while still.

I guess my comments were not clear. If something does not work for a particular
configuration, why use it? Given the 1000s of different BIOSs, PCs and the fact
that everything is written to work with windows, to expect no issues is not
realistic. My only point was/is if it does not work for your configuration, you
are not likely (in my experience) to be able to get it working without a pretty
good knowledge of fbsd, xorg and C. The handbook is very clear on how to
configure without HAL, so that should be the first thing to try.
_______________________________________________
[hidden email] mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[hidden email]"

[Jerome Herman]

On 02/05/2012 17:06, Albert Shih wrote:

>   Le 30/04/2012 ? 17:19:35+0200, Jerome Herman a écrit
>>>> I was afraid this would happen. And I fear it is just the begining.
>>> Why you say that ?
>> Short answer : I am a proud member of the "HAL and DBus are evil" group.
>> Middle answer : HAL and DBus were made, maintained and tuned with pretty
>> much nothing but Linux in mind. As a result they hardly play well with
>> other OS, and will tend to play worse as the time goes by.  In fact
>> general opinion is that HAL never truly worked under Linux either, it is
>> now officially deprecated.
> OK. I'm just a basic user. Event I use FreeBSD since 3.x
>
> I'm sysadmin so I use lot of FreeBSD for the server side. On my laptop I
> use...vim/X11/Firefox/ion3 and that is almost everything I knwon.
>
> I remenber when hal is release I lost lot of time to configure X11 to use
> my keyboard map (us_intl) and hate hal for that ;-)
>
>>> ugen5.2:<vendor 0x413c>   at usbus5
>>> ums1:<vendor 0x413c Dell Premium USB Optical Mouse, class 0/0, rev 2.00/0.09, addr 2>   on usbus5
>>> ums1: 5 buttons and [XYZT] coordinates ID=0
>> Ok looking at your files, it does not appear to be a hal/dbus problem
>> either :
>> The device is correctly probed and registered with DBus, known as
>> /dev/ums1, and the x11 driver is mapped to "mouse" which should be correct.
>> For one reason or another, xorg is not catching/processing the info.
>>
>> Can you send the Xorg log ? Just wait until X is up and then plug the
>> mouse. I am curious to see what happens inside xorg.
> I think the problem is indeed comme from Xorg.
>
> Before I plug (Notice my touchpad working)
>
> http://dl.free.fr/nkZEuk5nZ
>
> I plug the mouse
>
> http://dl.free.fr/vEn4bnirv
>
> Thanks.
>
> Regards.
>
> JAS
>

Ok here is what happens,

In your system you have your touchpad declared both in a static way in
your xorg config, and probed by HAL.
What happens is that when xorg starts it first install the touchpad as
required by the config file, and then tries to install it again via
autodetection. Of course the second installation of the same device
doesn't work as the device is already busy with xorg, and xorg stops to
try to auto-install devices.
When you plug another mouse, xorg is notified that there are new
devices, but starts by trying to reinstall the touchpad, fails again for
the same reason as above and stops trying.

In order to solve your problem you can try the following :
a) remove the touchpad lines from your xorg config. This way the
touchpad should be installed by auto detection. (simply comment it as
you might be needing it back soon)
b) forbid hal from probing the touchpad. If solution a fails, I would
explain to you how to do this if solution a) fails.

Jerome Herman
_______________________________________________
[hidden email] mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[hidden email]"

[Albert Shih-2]

 Le 02/05/2012 ? 22:44:19+0200, Jerome Herman a écrit
> >
Hi.

> Ok here is what happens,
>
> In your system you have your touchpad declared both in a static way in
> your xorg config, and probed by HAL.
> What happens is that when xorg starts it first install the touchpad as
> required by the config file, and then tries to install it again via
> autodetection. Of course the second installation of the same device
> doesn't work as the device is already busy with xorg, and xorg stops to
> try to auto-install devices.
> When you plug another mouse, xorg is notified that there are new
> devices, but starts by trying to reinstall the touchpad, fails again for
> the same reason as above and stops trying.

OK.

>
> In order to solve your problem you can try the following :
> a) remove the touchpad lines from your xorg config. This way the
> touchpad should be installed by auto detection. (simply comment it as
> you might be needing it back soon)

I've no idea how I can do that.

Here my xorg.conf (without font/driver for graphics etc..):


Section "ServerLayout"
        Identifier     "X.org Configured"
        Screen      0  "Screen0" 0 0
# InputDevice    "Mouse0" "CorePointer"
        InputDevice    "Keyboard0" "CoreKeyboard"
EndSection


Section "Module"
        Load  "extmod"
        Load  "record"
        Load  "dbe"
        Load  "glx"
        Load  "dri"
        Load  "dri2"
EndSection

Section "InputDevice"
        Identifier  "Keyboard0"
        Driver      "kbd"
EndSection

Section "InputDevice"
        Identifier  "Mouse0"
        Driver      "mouse"
        Option    "Protocol" "auto"
        Option    "Device" "/dev/sysmouse"
        Option    "ZAxisMapping" "4 5 6 7"
EndSection


I've try to comment out

        Option    "Protocol" "auto"
        Option    "Device" "/dev/sysmouse"
        Option    "ZAxisMapping" "4 5 6 7"

without any result.



> b) forbid hal from probing the touchpad. If solution a fails, I would
> explain to you how to do this if solution a) fails.

Any solution ;-)

Thanks again.

Regards.

JAS
--
Albert SHIH
DIO bâtiment 15
Observatoire de Paris
5 Place Jules Janssen
92195 Meudon Cedex
Téléphone : 01 45 07 76 26/06 86 69 95 71
xmpp: [hidden email]
Heure local/Local time:
jeu 3 mai 2012 09:27:51 CEST
_______________________________________________
[hidden email] mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[hidden email]"

[Albert Shih-2]

 Le 02/05/2012 ? 10:27:56-0600, Warren Block a écrit
> On Wed, 2 May 2012, Albert Shih wrote:
>
> > I think the problem is indeed comme from Xorg.
>
> Just to repeat: on this Gateway notebook, only one or the other of the
> touchpad or mouse would work until I enabled moused in /etc/rc.conf.
> Now either or both work, including when the USB mouse is connected after
> X starts.

Sorry.

I forget to thanks you the first time you answer me.

But just after you send the message, I already try that, without any
result.

Regards.

JAS
--
Albert SHIH
DIO bâtiment 15
Observatoire de Paris
5 Place Jules Janssen
92195 Meudon Cedex
Téléphone : 01 45 07 76 26/06 86 69 95 71
xmpp: [hidden email]
Heure local/Local time:
jeu 3 mai 2012 09:32:16 CEST
_______________________________________________
[hidden email] mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[hidden email]"

[Warren Block]

On Thu, 3 May 2012, Albert Shih wrote:

> Le 02/05/2012 ? 10:27:56-0600, Warren Block a écrit
>> On Wed, 2 May 2012, Albert Shih wrote:
>>
>>> I think the problem is indeed comme from Xorg.
>>
>> Just to repeat: on this Gateway notebook, only one or the other of the
>> touchpad or mouse would work until I enabled moused in /etc/rc.conf.
>> Now either or both work, including when the USB mouse is connected after
>> X starts.
>
> Sorry.
>
> I forget to thanks you the first time you answer me.
>
> But just after you send the message, I already try that, without any
> result.

Different hardware, possibly.

For completeness, this machine has dbus running, hal is not installed,
moused_enable="YES" is in /etc/rc.conf, and it requires a restart.
Probably the touchpad on this system is USB internally, and a normal
moused can't be started after devd starts a "nondefault" moused.

xorg.conf has no InputDevice entries at all.  The scroll wheel and
middle click buttons work.
_______________________________________________
[hidden email] mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[hidden email]"

[Eduardo Morras]

Can you disable the touchpad? In my laptop (Asus K5) if i press Fn+F9
the touchpad is disabled via ACPI and not detected by HAL nor Xorg.


_______________________________________________
[hidden email] mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[hidden email]"