Why Are You Using FreeBSD?

[David Chisnall-2]

Hi Everyone,

This is off-topic, so please feel free to disregard it, but I'm sending it to this list in the hope that it will reach a largish number of users.  

I am currently looking at updating some of our advocacy material (which advertises exciting new features like SMP support), and before I do I'd like to get a better feel for why the rest of you are using FreeBSD.  If you had to list the three things you most like about FreeBSD, which would you pick?  Are they the same as when you first started using it?  

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[Pierre-Luc Drouin]

On Wed, May 30, 2012 at 2:20 PM, David Chisnall <[hidden email]>wrote:

> Hi Everyone,
>
> This is off-topic, so please feel free to disregard it, but I'm sending it
> to this list in the hope that it will reach a largish number of users.
>
> I am currently looking at updating some of our advocacy material (which
> advertises exciting new features like SMP support), and before I do I'd
> like to get a better feel for why the rest of you are using FreeBSD.  If
> you had to list the three things you most like about FreeBSD, which would
> you pick?  Are they the same as when you first started using it?
>
> David_______________________________________________
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>

For me it is:

-Stability
-Well-structured OS (i.e. filesystem, kernel and its config, etc)
-The ports system

These are also the elements that made me start using FreeBSD about a decade
ago. So these are mainly consequences of the development strategy of
FreeBSD, as opposed to the free for all approach of Linux. Personally, what
makes me choose Linux over FreeBSD for laptop usage is the very limited
acpi support of FreeBSD (suspend and resume) compared to Linux.
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[Chris Nehren-2]

On Wed, May 30, 2012 at 19:20:31 +0100 , David Chisnall wrote:
> Hi Everyone,
>
> This is off-topic,

... and not wrapped at <80 characters.

> I am currently looking at updating some of our advocacy material
> (which advertises exciting new features like SMP support), and before
> I do I'd like to get a better feel for why the rest of you are using
> FreeBSD.  If you had to list the three things you most like about
> FreeBSD, which would you pick?  Are they the same as when you first
> started using it?  

1. Solaris features without being beholden to Oracle.
2. The FreeBSD community focuses more on tech than on licensing and
political activism like a certain freeware Unix "alike".
3. The ports system does a far better job of balancing tracking recent
software releases and stability than other systems of the same sort
(most typically exemplified by certain popular Unix "alikes").

Bonus round, something subjective:
4. Everything "feels right" and "makes sense" on a very deep level for
me, in a way that never happened with the other Unix and Unix "alike"
OSs I've used.

The first item is not the same as when I started using FreeBSD, because
those features didn't exist in FreeBSD at the time. The third reason is
what actually brought me to FreeBSD, after I became frustrated at the
seeming inability of Unix "alike" maintainers to maintain that balance
of recent software and stability (Ubuntu didn't exist at the time, and
the less time I spend using that the better).

--
Thanks and best regards,
Chris Nehren
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[Vitaly Magerya]

David Chisnall <[hidden email]> wrote:
> If you had
> to list the three things you most like about FreeBSD, which would you pick?

1. Large number of ports, including obscure programs other package
system don't have.
2. Relatively straightforward system configuration (i.e. rc.conf), as
opposed to options scattered across multiple files and tools.
3. Port options. I don't want to run HAL and friends for example; on
FreeBSD I can skip them.

Why don't you ask about top 3 things we hate about FreeBSD?
Listing negative sides in advocacy materials would be a refreshing change.

> Are they the same as when you first started using it?

Nope. It was mostly blind chance.
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[hewbert]

On 05/30/2012 12:20 PM, David Chisnall wrote:

> Hi Everyone,
>
> This is off-topic, so please feel free to disregard it, but I'm sending it to this list in the hope that it will reach a largish number of users.
>
> I am currently looking at updating some of our advocacy material (which advertises exciting new features like SMP support), and before I do I'd like to get a better feel for why the rest of you are using FreeBSD.  If you had to list the three things you most like about FreeBSD, which would you pick?  Are they the same as when you first started using it?
>
> David_______________________________________________
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For us, stability is the biggest reason.

Stability in terms of not only reliability, but also the design
philosophy and consistency.

I really appreciate the "cleanliness" of FreeBSD, and what seems to be a
well thought out and well deployed base.

To me, FreeBSD seems conservative in that a lot of design is "tried and
true", but also progressive at the same time where it counts (e.g.
ZFS).  I don't get the feeling of hasty implementations that I have with
other systems.

We replaced a Linux file server (which replaced several Mac Xserves)
with a FreeBSD box in the recent past and I've had zero issues with
stability, reliability, or performance.  Whereas before, it was always a
struggle to maintain any of those, and with constant maintenance.  This
is on the same hardware with the same userbase.

This is just my two cents as an end user sysadmin with no development
experience.

Josh
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[Johan Hendriks-3]

David Chisnall schreef:

> Hi Everyone,
>
> This is off-topic, so please feel free to disregard it, but I'm sending it to this list in the hope that it will reach a largish number of users.
>
> I am currently looking at updating some of our advocacy material (which advertises exciting new features like SMP support), and before I do I'd like to get a better feel for why the rest of you are using FreeBSD.  If you had to list the three things you most like about FreeBSD, which would you pick?  Are they the same as when you first started using it?
>
> David_______________________________________________
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> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable
> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[hidden email]"

Why i use and still use FreeBSD
1) stability
2) ease of use
3) ZFS
4) Community
5) I does the things i need.

The first encounter with FreeBSD was with FreeBSD 4.5 if i recall correct.
I did try a lot of Linux distro's in that time, and could not find a
distro that suits me well.
I did use redhat 6 to 7 and Suse also tried Slackware, and gentoo that
was new at that time.
But each distro had it quircks, redhat and dependency hell, suse had
yast which was horrible back then.
Gentoo had way to many knobs you need to set to get it compiled and so on.
Then i did try FreeBSD and it did what i needed back then, the installer
was something i need to figure out, but once i got the idea of slices
and so on, it did what i needed.
Upgrading was easy, rebuilding the system worked and so on.
It never let me down. I was a happy camper, and settled with FreeBSD.
Till today i still can do all i want.
Mail server, Web server, MailScanner server, samba server, ISCSI server
and NFS server is what we need today, and FreeBSD does it all.
Now with ZFS , things got even better.

Did try some Linux distro's, but only for the desktop.
Linux Mint is what i use on the laptop now.

As long as there is no need to use Linux to get things done i stick with
FreeBSD.

regards
Johan


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[Adam Strohl-3]

On 5/31/2012 1:20, David Chisnall wrote:
> I am currently looking at updating some of our advocacy material (which advertises exciting new features like SMP support), and before I do I'd like to get a better feel for why the rest of you are using FreeBSD.  If you had to list the three things you most like about FreeBSD, which would you pick?  Are they the same as when you first started using it?

1. High performance with security and stability focus -- truly makes it
the ideal server platform
2. The ports system (and supporting tools like portupgrade, portaudit, etc)
3. The OS "makes sense" (as Chris N. mentioned).  The file system
layout, tools, etc are consistent.

There is so much other stuff too.  Like PF and CARP, ZFS and more ...  a
kick-ass combo of features and very server-focused.

As a professional admin FreeBSD is a pleasure to work with day in and
day out.  I've never heard a admins of "other" OSes say that :P

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[Mark Felder-4]

On Wed, 30 May 2012 13:59:01 -0500, Chris Nehren  
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> 4. Everything "feels right" and "makes sense" on a very deep level for
> me, in a way that never happened with the other Unix and Unix "alike"
> OSs I've used.

Bingo.

For me:

1) Integration. The OS is integrated very well all around. How many  
utilities on Linux are required to replace the full functionality of the  
BSD "ifconfig" ?
2) Ports. We have customers with very different requirements; we don't  
have to run different Linux distros to meet their needs in a way that is  
supported by the package management system. This makes the job as a  
sysadmin and our infrastructure very consistent.
3) Features. PF is indispensable, and ZFS is a great bonus. System  
utilities, too: sockstat, systat, gstat, BSD's top, etc.
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[Oliver Pinter (Pintér Olivér)]

On 5/30/12, David Chisnall <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Everyone,
>
> This is off-topic, so please feel free to disregard it, but I'm sending it
> to this list in the hope that it will reach a largish number of users.
>
> I am currently looking at updating some of our advocacy material (which
> advertises exciting new features like SMP support), and before I do I'd like
> to get a better feel for why the rest of you are using FreeBSD.  If you had
> to list the three things you most like about FreeBSD, which would you pick?
> Are they the same as when you first started using it?

Hi!

Likes (sorry, not only 3 item):
----------------------------------------------------------
1) FreeBSD is NOT Linux = FreeBSD is stable, reliable, simple (there
are no automated brainfucks... like udev, hal and dbus in base system)
2) has a clean source, and FreeBSD is maintainable: if there are a
working driver in N+2 version, I have a much bigger chance, that
working in N too
3) is highly configurable (~ 1) ), I like rc.conf and sysctl (linux's
procfs and sysfs is a chaos ...)
4) FreeBSD has a ports system, that contained KDE3
5) well documented
6) not fragmented as Linux, (relation to many distro, that not have idea/goal)
7) not GPL
8) FreeBSD is a complete system, and not just a kernel + random thing
from everywhere, and not hackish

Are they the same as when you first started using it?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
yes

>
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[Chris Rees-11]

On 30 May 2012 19:20, David Chisnall <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Hi Everyone,
>
> This is off-topic, so please feel free to disregard it, but I'm sending it to this list in the hope that it will reach a largish number of users.
>
> I am currently looking at updating some of our advocacy material (which advertises exciting new features like SMP support), and before I do I'd like to get a better feel for why the rest of you are using FreeBSD.  If you had to list the three things you most like about FreeBSD, which would you pick?  Are they the same as when you first started using it?
>

You might not have wanted opinions from developers... but

1) Complete base system-- if I mess up badly with ports I can delete
them all and still have a usable system to recover from

2) Simplicity of configuration-- mostly configured with flat text
files rather than directories full of conf files

3) Friendly community; easy to get support from people who really know
what they're doing.

Chris
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[Christopher J. Ruwe-2]

On Wed, 30 May 2012 19:20:31 +0100
David Chisnall <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Everyone,
>
> This is off-topic, so please feel free to disregard it, but I'm
> sending it to this list in the hope that it will reach a largish
> number of users.  
>
> I am currently looking at updating some of our advocacy material
> (which advertises exciting new features like SMP support), and before
> I do I'd like to get a better feel for why the rest of you are using
> FreeBSD.  If you had to list the three things you most like about
> FreeBSD, which would you pick?  Are they the same as when you first
> started using it?  
>
> David_______________________________________________
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1) Stability in the meaning of "does not break config semantics from one
second to the other without mentioning".

2) Help from the list which not only solves your problem, but teaches!
also.  

3) Features like ZFS, PF, periodic, ZFS ...

I could name many more, but you wanted the top three and I am not really
sure about the order, so I just typed down those which came to mind
first.

BTW, I got hooked coming from Gentoo, so I am sure I would miss and then
list many more FreeBSD-likables when I would be forced away.

Cheers, Christopher
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[Steven Hartland]

1. The community - Unlike Linux which is very fragmented by all the different flavours and hence individual communities, FreeBSD
has one community who are always happy to help with hints tips and advice. This simply cant be beaten!

2. Stability - There's always issue with any OS but in our many years of using FreeBSD, we've never had any issues which haven't
been able to fix quickly with the help of the community.

3. Easy and quick to install servers - No other OS comes close with regards to simplicity of install to get a "server" up and
running. Initially we used the standard sysinstall, which while had its quirks was still many times faster and easier to use than
any Linux installer I've tried. Recently we've been using a small custom version of mfsBSD (http://mfsbsd.vx.sk/) which enables us
to do base machine install on any hardware we run in minutes.

If you want a 4th I'd have to say ZFS support, the flexibility and simplicity this has brought to the management of storage under
FreeBSD has been a godsend! This is the big new one for us :)

    Regard
    Steve

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Chisnall" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2012 7:20 PM
Subject: Why Are You Using FreeBSD?


Hi Everyone,

This is off-topic, so please feel free to disregard it, but I'm sending it to this list in the hope that it will reach a largish
number of users.

I am currently looking at updating some of our advocacy material (which advertises exciting new features like SMP support), and
before I do I'd like to get a better feel for why the rest of you are using FreeBSD.  If you had to list the three things you most
like about FreeBSD, which would you pick?  Are they the same as when you first started using it?

David_______________________________________________
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[Jakub Lach]

- You can (change how to) compile
/tailor almost everything, yet whole OS
doesn't feel fragmented.
- Provided you have massive ;)
WITHOUT_* stack in make.conf
you can have pretty frugal system.
(hal, dbus etc.)
- Native Opera support, yes it
really mattered to me, and still
matters. Web browser is usually single most
used application.
- Compiling base system from source
and customising e.g. kernel is actually
supported (not like in OpenBSD, which
(for valid reasons!) is rather discouraged).
- You can actually have all (ports & base) binaries
on particular system compiled from source
on the same machine, not only it's supported, it's
popular route.
- Huge ports system, mostly simple & sane
(vanilla sources, clear structure).
- Portmaster.
- Good Thinkpad support usually.
- STABLE branch, every day is release
day ;)

[Jakub Lach]

- Actually somewhat caring about performance too... (not
like OpenBSD).
- True unix pedigree, in mostly still retained philosophically.

P.S. I'm not bashing OpenBSD, in fact, it's one of my favorite
systems, just FreeBSD in it's default form/ src update
route is closer to how I would like this system to work/ at
this moment.

Fully binary system with uniform packages/configuration has
it's non disputable merits. Add to this no particular emphasis
on performance and OpenBSD could have upper hand for me
in that scenario.

[Lars Eighner-4]

On Wed, 30 May 2012, David Chisnall wrote:

> Hi Everyone,


I came to FreeBSD nearly 20 years ago because it had text-mode (aka command
line, console, etc.) apps and I wanted to avoid GUIs for applications that
are not essentially graphic in nature.  The ability to switch for
applications essentially graphic (paint, image manipulation, etc.) and back
for everything else (writing) without rebooting was very attractive.

There is not any graphics font that can put 2000 characters (80x25) on one
screen legibly - and that has not changed.  The native editors on BSD (vi,
emacs) are pretty horrible -- imagine the Frankenstein that thought "I'll
just write an editor in Lisp!"  But once I discovered Joe, it was smooth
sailing.  There is no GUI file manager as good as lynx ./ .

This is still why I use FreeBSD.  I tried linuxes, but found keyboard
mapping really opaque.  Now, I won't use linuxes because they have abandoned
text-mode for rasterized text -- which is just as horrible as GUIs -- and
the linux distributions just assume you are trying to run Gnome, completely
ignoring formerly text-mode, now rasterized applications.

Unfortunately FreeBSD seems to be headed this way and I will have to hop off
the upgrade cycle at some version and hope that I die before it becomes
orphaned.

--
Lars Eighner
http://www.larseighner.com/index.html
8800 N IH35 APT 1191 AUSTIN TX 78753-5266

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[Brian W.]

On 5/30/2012 11:20 AM, David Chisnall wrote:

> Hi Everyone,
>
> This is off-topic, so please feel free to disregard it, but I'm sending it to this list in the hope that it will reach a largish number of users.
>
> I am currently looking at updating some of our advocacy material (which advertises exciting new features like SMP support), and before I do I'd like to get a better feel for why the rest of you are using FreeBSD.  If you had to list the three things you most like about FreeBSD, which would you pick?  Are they the same as when you first started using it?
>
> David_______________________________________________
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> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable
> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[hidden email]"

SMP support (pause) new (longer pause)  I spent as little time as
possible in version 5.x.

For me there are a few reasons I like FreeBSD. I was first introduced to
FreeBSD by a coworker in 1997 or so. I had tried a bit of Linux before
that. I was working for a SunOS/Solaris using ISP at the time; so when I
tried FreeBSD it did seem to make more sense to me.  The keys are these.

The filesystem layout just makes much more intuitive sense to me.
If I want a barebones system where I just add what I want to it, that is
easily available. Minimal install + packages/ports I need has been my
approach for awhile.
Although I have gotten in trouble with the FreeBSD ports/packages
system, the tools that FreeBSD includes make it much easier to recover
from package dependency messes than the Linux version so lovingly called
RPM hell
The stable version is pretty reliable; I have been tracking -stable on a
couple home mail servers for several years, perhaps a decade. In all
that time, I only once had a serious problem, caused by drive detection
changes; I used ee to edit some files and I was all set.

Brian Whalen
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[Andrew Reilly-5]

On Wed, May 30, 2012 at 07:20:31PM +0100, David Chisnall wrote:
> If you had to list
> the three things you most like about FreeBSD, which would you
> pick?  Are they the same as when you first started using it?

1) Using it doesn't require changing me (well, at least change
is gradual and continuous.) (BSD since '86, even though the
hardware dies every few years.)

2) Incremental updates from source are easy.  (What's running
corresponds to the source on the system, so I can fix breakage
as I find it.  Not that that's common.)

3) ZFS turns out to be very cool, and seems to work really well.

(3) is new, but (1) and (2) have been there since the beginning
(since it was the patchkit.)

[Another change, not listed among the three most-liked things,
but still something that I like equivocally, is that I've
stopped fighting GUIs, and relegated my FreeBSD boxes to
servers.  GUI work I've delegated to Macs.  That could yet
change back/again, if Macs keep getting worse...]

Cheers,

--
Andrew
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[Brian W.]

On 5/30/2012 1:26 PM, Oliver Pinter wrote:

> On 5/30/12, David Chisnall<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>> Hi Everyone,
>>
>> This is off-topic, so please feel free to disregard it, but I'm sending it
>> to this list in the hope that it will reach a largish number of users.
>>
>> I am currently looking at updating some of our advocacy material (which
>> advertises exciting new features like SMP support), and before I do I'd like
>> to get a better feel for why the rest of you are using FreeBSD.  If you had
>> to list the three things you most like about FreeBSD, which would you pick?
>> Are they the same as when you first started using it?
> Hi!
>
> Likes (sorry, not only 3 item):
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> 1) FreeBSD is NOT Linux = FreeBSD is stable, reliable, simple (there
> are no automated brainfucks... like udev, hal and dbus in base system)
> 2) has a clean source, and FreeBSD is maintainable: if there are a
> working driver in N+2 version, I have a much bigger chance, that
> working in N too
> 3) is highly configurable (~ 1) ), I like rc.conf and sysctl (linux's
> procfs and sysfs is a chaos ...)
> 4) FreeBSD has a ports system, that contained KDE3
> 5) well documented
> 6) not fragmented as Linux, (relation to many distro, that not have idea/goal)
> 7) not GPL
> 8) FreeBSD is a complete system, and not just a kernel + random thing
> from everywhere, and not hackish
>
> Are they the same as when you first started using it?
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> yes

Seconding David above, #7 is a big deal. I heard John "Maddog" Hall
speak in person a few years back in San Diego re GPL3 and just walked
out of there thinking scratching my head.

Brian
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[David Chisnall-2]

Thanks to all who replied, both on and off list.  I've attempted to distill the replies that I got into a coherent summary.  I've put the draft on the wiki here:

http://wiki.freebsd.org/WhyUseFreeBSD

Feedback welcome!

David

On 30 May 2012, at 19:20, David Chisnall wrote:

> Hi Everyone,
>
> This is off-topic, so please feel free to disregard it, but I'm sending it to this list in the hope that it will reach a largish number of users.  
>
> I am currently looking at updating some of our advocacy material (which advertises exciting new features like SMP support), and before I do I'd like to get a better feel for why the rest of you are using FreeBSD.  If you had to list the three things you most like about FreeBSD, which would you pick?  Are they the same as when you first started using it?  
>
> David

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[Prabhpal S. Mavi]

On 5/30/12 6:52 PM, Pierre-Luc Drouin wrote:

> On Wed, May 30, 2012 at 2:20 PM, David Chisnall<[hidden email]>wrote:
>
>> Hi Everyone,
>>
>> This is off-topic, so please feel free to disregard it, but I'm sending it
>> to this list in the hope that it will reach a largish number of users.
>>
>> I am currently looking at updating some of our advocacy material (which
>> advertises exciting new features like SMP support), and before I do I'd
>> like to get a better feel for why the rest of you are using FreeBSD.  If
>> you had to list the three things you most like about FreeBSD, which would
>> you pick?  Are they the same as when you first started using it?

> Hi, i would not say very much different than the guys have said. FreeBSD system is know as heavy duty system and chooice of admins where solid rock performace is required, such as telecom industries, extremly large environment, any individual can also use FreeBSD for same purpose. There are many meaningfull reason those can prove FreeBSD is best system.
1.) I use FreeBSD because it is extremely robust System.
2.) Stability / Reliability / it's ability
3.) FreeBSD known for its ability to handle heavy network traffic with
high performance and rock solid reliability
4.) Resource management is very good for FreeBSD, such as Memory,
processor use. (I maintain 218 Linux / Unix Server) therefor i know of.
5.) FreeBSD is the system of choice for high performance network
applications.
6.) pf is better than iptables.
7.) many many more

Thanks / Nath NK
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